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04:59 PM, SEPTEMBER 05, 2007
Blog Blog 

Wrote this as a response to another user’s blog, but wanted to post it up here as well.

On nonviolence as the ONLY tool for social change:

This is a very deep debate, one I don’t want to go too deep into, except to say that it’s really not as simple as people who are new to activism often make it out to be.

Historically nonviolent movements that have not been paralleled by a militant movement with broadly similar goals have been remarkably unsuccessful, and they have quite often ended up having their members massacred. We learn about Ghandi and Dr. King in elementary school, but nobody mentions that Ghandi was completely ineffective until Indian Nationalists started a massive campaign of bombings, train derailings, and assassinations that financially crippled the British occupation of India. THAT is what made the British decide to go talk to the pacifists – as a way to negotiate without appearing to cave into the militants. Likewise, Dr. King and the pacifist wing of the civil rights movement were completely ineffective until Militants starting organizing Self-Defense societies that armed and trained people in the black community to stand up to the Klan. It wasn’t until black people started shooting back that the federal government decided to support the civil rights movement against the incumbent governments of the various southern states. And don’t assume that the Pacifists were necessarily opposed to violence as a tool for self defense – on the night of his assassination Dr. King had a bodyguard with a submachine gun posted outside his bedroom door.

Pacifism is a potentially useful tactic, nothing more. When people start treating it like gospel they put themselves in a very dangerous place. As a concrete example the fact that the German socialists decided to embrace pacifism and disband their militias instead of directly opposing the nazi brownshirts in the streets with force was a HUGE victory for Hitler and a major step in his rise to power. If the left had stood up and fought back the Nazi coup could have never come off, instead they abandoned their sensibility and opted for the “moral highground” – and 9 million holocaust victims + uncounted soldiers from dozens of nations had to pay with their lives for their pacifism. I would argue that their embrace of pacifism was nothing short of morally bankrupt.

We’re not at that point yet in the USA, but we’re edging closer all the time. What will you do if/when we get there?

Rating:
neutral
(by 5 users)  

7 PREVIOUS COMMENTS

Bio_pic_small_thumb SEP 06, 2007
Elias Feghali

Lynx,
The debate is an important one certainly. I think we should talk about the extent to which nonviolence is a tactic, and the extent to which it should be the only tactic. However, I disagree completely with your facts. I will address them point by point when I have more time, but I think your painting of history is not only inaccurate but more or less propaganda. I mean no offense by my accusation, which of course, is but an accusation until I back it up. I plan on doing so very soon, and hopefully we can have a very meaningful debate.
Until then,
Eli

Christine_bbq_thumb SEP 06, 2007
Christine

Hello Lynx,




whatsss goodd whats good? very interested and engaging about you section…




I read this and I had lots of thoughts that led me to a not yet fully developed conclusion.




I believe that pacifism is a useful tactic.




I believe it depends on what type of pacifism.. they are ranges in mostly every type of tactic.




I will talk more about this soon but I am really busy and want to read a litle more on what you claimed in this post before I continue on.




talk to u soon




peace&love,
christine

Rich_main_-_071030_thumb SEP 27, 2007
Richard Jones

I’m still really intrigued by this, and look forward to hearing what Elias and Christine come back with. I do agree that non-violence alone can’t succeed, at least not in the current state of civillisation, but I also feel it is a vital element.




Just watching the news over the last few days of Burma, and it’s so incredible to see the crowds trying to push for change. Their efforts are not without vain, however I also feel that repressive governments will only be swayed when there is a strong enough international pressure, and by strong enough this must include at least the threat of violence. For that threat to succeed we have to be willing to sometimes follow through, even though the consequences can be as terrible as passivity.




Look forward to hearing more.

Rethosdefaultavatar_small OCT 14, 2007
Richard Treadwell

Lynx, I’m afraid of that day to be honest. Because I know I couldn’t look at myself in the mirror if I didn’t get out there and fight back. What does everyone think would happen if a massive uprising took place that threatened to take away the power and privilege of the few. If we marched and took control of our natural resources, and our mass communications. If we had a plan as to how to use them efficiently and democratically. They would find any and every excuse to use violence….you better believe it. Pacifism works fine right up to that point, then you’ve got to decide whether your gonna allow it to happen. Militancy with a broader movement is the key. We must come at them with multiple strategies converging on a few principles of change. Keeping the moral upper hand is crucial too, we respond in kind, we fight BACK, we PROTECT ourselves. Unlike the German socialists, we’ve got be prepared for all scenarios, and intelligent and wise enough to know when a particular scenario confronts us.




Sometimes every alternative isn’t pretty, but you do have to act with a sense of foresight, and ultimately weigh the prospects for future peace and democracy with the ugliness of the tactics, and be willing to follow through. To throw out militancy at the start is to eliminate a possibly useful tool later on… just keep it in the toolbox is all I’m sayin.

Lynx_at_march_15_rally_thumb DEC 08, 2007
lynx

well, it’s been 4 months and elias never came back to refute my arguments as promised, so let the public record show that the points were conceded. too bad, i was looking forward to a good debate…

Bio_pic_small_thumb DEC 10, 2007
Elias Feghali

Lynx,




I acknowledge my absence from this debate. My incompetence can be partly blamed on college finals—and a scorched memory. I actually just bought a book called “Pacficism as Pathology” which makes the same argument against nonviolence (I think). I plan on giving that an honest read, and coming back when my mind is healthy to spark this much needed discussion.




Sorry for the delay, and keep fighting the good one brotha,
Eli

Lynx_at_march_15_rally_thumb DEC 10, 2007
lynx

ah, well that makes sense, I’m out of school now and had forgot that it’s finals season. good luck with your tests!




Pacifism as Pathology is a good read, Ward Churchill has been a big influence on my thinking. I can’t give him 100% credit for my deciding to stop calling myself a pacifist, but he definately gave me a swift kick in that direction.




cheers man -
lynx


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